Dead Dolphin ashore May 2016

Dead Dolphin ashore May 2016

Thursday, 11 April 2013

Work in progress - Ramsgate items and TDC

Today was a very interesting day as I was able to get some research in plus I had an afternoon meeting with a TDC cabinet member and a TDC Council Officer.
My research was looking at Ramsgate items listed in the Borough of Margate 1929 Parker collection that were passed onto TDC and KCC in 1974. This involves  checking 10,422 entries in the Parker 1929 catalogue and picking out items of special interest as well as Ramsgate items. The Parker collection is interesting because the collection list items from all over Kent including Broadstairs and most of East Kent.As it stands to date there is no paper trail of items from the Parker collection to TDC.
My objective today was more about establishing provenance of Ramsgate items that were hanging on the wall in Albion house around 1987 to identify if they were former Borough of Ramsgate assets , this also includes TDC loans to Ramsgate Town Council and the 16 loans to the Maritime museum. I should also add that I am in possession of a Albion house number list as mentioned in a previous posting.
In the first 1300 listed prints I came across 19 Ramsgate  prints they included two de Loutherbourg's (items 11 & 12) and a Francis Jukes print (item 39) and the identities are exactly what is in the Maritime museum. So I am almost certain that  the Maritime museum loans are from the TDC inherited Parker collection therefore eliminating them as being a former Borough of Ramsgate assets.
By the time I had reached item 2000 I was wondering if I would ever see anything else from Ramsgate then as I reached items 2150 I was hit by page after page of Ramsgate prints to item 2560 and then again from 2600-2670. Among those items were a few Broadstairs and a few Sandwich so at a guess I could estimate there are around 400 Ramsgate prints and a most of these were small size Rock & Co , Shepherd etc., I did not record them but I noted the number range for future reference. When I reached item 2700 I called it a day leaving only another 7,722 items to go.

At 13:00 hrs I had a meeting  with a TDC cabinet member and a TDC council officer to discuss the status of Ramsgate prints and  artwork in the TDC collection that is currently being audited. This also included a discussion on former Borough of Ramsgate assets that Ramsgate Town Council may lay claim to.
I should also add that I handed over information regarding Ramsgate items that will help with the TDC audit.

In bullet points  I have listed some points I raised.

  • The prints that were on the wall in Albion house in 1987 were put there by TDC because they had a storage problem they are not original Albion House. All TDC prints were listed and I have a copy of the list Some are photocopies from when photocopying first came out. I have asked for the identities to be put to my number list from the TDC audit. 
  • In 1974 no art of value went to TDC from the Borough of Ramsgate and the number of items transferred are small but the quantity cannot be confirmed.
  • The bulk of Borough of Ramsgate art and artefacts items went to KCC  and Ramsgate library.
  • The Ramsgate Charter Trustees did have some Borough of Ramsgate artwork these are not number listed .
  • The bulk of Ramsgate items in the TDC collection came from the Borough of Margate Parker collection and Rowe bequest. The exact number is unknown until the TDC audit at Margate is complete.
  • TDC have number listed every Ramsgate piece of artwork they own.
  • The issue of TDC art and artifacts is going to the scrutiny committee.


Property of Ramsgate 
  • I think the 1987 Albion House number listed items are  not worth pursuing given their provenance and value.
  • There are two paintings in the TDC loan list to RTC. They are unlisted and were removed in the TDC Albion House clearance from storage. I believe that they are not TDC property and they should be claimed back.
  • There are artifacts that came from the above Albion house storage that ended up at the Margate Museum. They are unlisted and are not TDC property however they are very small in number.
  • All Ramsgate items that bear a TDC number are legitimately TDC property. However, the care and whereabouts of these items should be always be pursued.

Finally I now admit I made a few minor errors regarding my Ramsgate research, but considering I started all this from scratch I have now corrected some points.




4 comments:

Anonymous said...

Good work - although they are owned by TDC on behalf of the public.

Is this list online?

What happened to the items in ALbion House when the Town Council moved to the seafront?

Tony Ovenden said...

Anon,
As far as I know all items with a Ramsgate provenance are at the Custom House and some Ramsgate items have since been added to the collection.

What really gets me is the amount of Ramsgate items that is listed in the 1929 Borough of Margate Parker Collection Catalogue at Margate library. Well worth a look.

The only lists online are atthe Kent History and Library Center website.

Finally all the Ramsgate photography in the sunbeam collection is going online and it is a big project TDC are working on.

Richard Card said...

Tony ... if you run into JTW Margate History Society his ears may have been burning lately.

I mentioned him in email correspondence with Simon Wiesenthal Organisation.

I think the response is thanks JTW and well done. History has lessons to teach us and JTW, of Margate History Society, kept the spirit of that alive (War and Peace Show 1999)

Well done John. He may have been criticised for his emphasis on WW2 at times but it can be a good thing at times.

Richard Card said...

SW sent me a linkie to their site detailing typical neo nazi holocaust denial approaches

Some resonate exectly with John's witness account I sent Lord Greville Janner all those years ago.

JTW was a ballsy guy. A marquee full of the neos.

Holocaust denial cons